Today I’m passing along a fascinating list that comes from Harvard Law School. The list you see below includes the 261 colleges and universities where members of the Class of 2013 law school students come from.

Michelle Kretzschmur, the creator of Do-It-Yourself College Rankings sent me the link to the list because she knows how strongly I believe that students don’t have to attend schools favored by the college ratings gods to gain admission into excellent graduate and professional schools.

Michelle sent the link after reading this recent post of mine: 50  Schools That Produce the Most Science and Engineering PhDs

I checked out Harvard Law School’s site to see how many  students seeking a J.D. degree gain admission to the institution each year and I calculated that it’s approximately 560.  So obviously with this class size, graduates of elite undergraduate institutions are not represented in greater numbers than the students who hail from Central Connecticut State,  Eastern Kentucky University and  William Jewell College.

Undergrad Schools of Origin for Harvard Law School’s Class of 2013

Bottom Line:

As I’ve emphasized repeatedly on this college blog, where you attend college isn’t nearly as important as what you do when you get there. Just ask the folks at Harvard Law School.

Lynn O’Shaughnessy is the author of The College Solution: A Guide for Everyone Looking for the Right School at the Right Price.

The 2012-2013 college admission season hasn’t even officially started, but I’ve already been hearing from parents who are stressed about paying for elite schools that are on their teenagers’ lists.

Some of these parents believe that they have an obligation to incur huge debt if their children get accepted into the most prestigious schools. Here’s my worst example:

Last spring a mom told me that she and her husband were going to borrow $200,000 to send their son to Cornell University because they considered getting into the Ivy League the ultimate prize. The teenager, however, could have attended an honors program at Stony Brook University without incurring any debt. I swear I’m not making this up!

It’s sheer nonsense to think that you must attend the schools huddled at the top of the college rankings to succeed in life. To help refute this stubborn myth, I thought I’d share a few names of some successful Americans who have done quite well without obtaining a bachelor’s degree from the likes of a Yale or a Harvard.

Where 50 Successful Americans Attended College

I could have spent days typing in the names of Americans who fit into this category, but  I think my random list is a respectable start.  I collected some of these names myself and got others from folks who visit my Facebook page , including someone who sent me a link to a USA Today list of the alma maters of a smattering of CEOs.

I’d love to hear your picks that I can add to this list. Please share them in the comment box below.

1. Arnold Schwarzenegger, actor/politician, University of Wisconsin-Superior
2. Gore Vidal, author, didn’t attend college
3. Milton Friedman, economist, Rutgers University
4. Arthur Blank, co-founder Home Depot, Babson College
5. Bruce Willis, actor, Montclair State University
6. Michael Pollan, author/environmentalist, Bennington College
7. Paula Abdul, singer, California State University, Northridge
8. Karl Rove, political strategist, University of Utah (didn’t graduate)
9. David Plouffe, President Obama’s senior advisor, University of Delaware
10. Brian Williams, broadcaster, Catholic and George Washington universities, (didn’t graduate)
11. Bernie Marcus, Home Depot founder, Rutgers University
12. Neil Armstrong, astronaut, Purdue University
13. Clarence Thomas, Supreme Court justice, College of the Holy Cross
14. Millard S. Drexler, J. Crew CEO, University of Buffalo
15. Johnny Depp, actor, high school dropout
16. Stephen King, novelist, University of Maine
17. Jim Davis, creator of Garfield, Ball State University
18. Fernando Aguirre, Chiquita Brands, Southern Illinois University
19. Kate Spade, fashion designer, Arizona State University
20. Peggy Noonan, political commentator, Fairleigh Dickinson University
21. Barbara Boxer, US Senator, Brooklyn College
22. Phillip Anschutz, sports team owner, University of Kansas
23. David Marmet, director/Pulitzer Prize winner, Goddard College
24. Muriel Fox, co-founder of National Organization of Women, Rollins College
25. Jerry Seinfeld, comedian, Queens College
26. Steve Capus, NBC news president, Temple University
27. Steven Spielberg, director, California State University, Long Beach
28. David Edmondson, RadioShack CEO, Pacific Coast Baptist College
29. Mary Higgins Clark, author, Fordham University
30. Richard Ben-Veniste, Watergate prosecutor, Muhlenberg College
31. Oprah Winfrey, television personality, Tennessee State University
32. Sam Walton, Walmart founder, University of Missouri
33. Marcia McNutt, director of U.S. Geological Survey, Colorado College
34. John Glenn astronaut, Muskingum University
35. Michael Mulligan, Mapquest CEO, Wheeling Jesuit University
36. Jerry Greenfield, co-founder Ben and Jerry’s Ice Cream, Oberlin College
37. Jerry Richardson, owner of Carolina Panthers, Wofford College
38. John Malkovich, actor, Eastern Illinois University
39. Rich Gotham, Boston Celtics president, Providence College
40. Robert Iger, Disney CEO, Ithaca College
41. John Hamm, actor, University of Missouri
42. Steve Carrell, actor, Denison University
43. Nancy Grace, legal commentator, Mercer University
44. Tim Russert, broadcaster, John Carroll University
45. Shelia Blair, former FDIC chair, University of Kansas
46. Howard Stern, radio personality, Boston University
47. Janet Robinson, New York Times CEO, Salve Regina College
48. Johnny Carson, comedian Millsaps College,
49. Bob Edwards, broadcaster, University of Louisville
50. Sandra Bullock, actress, East Carolina University

Lynn O’Shaughnessy is the author of second edition of The College Solution: A Guide for Everyone Looking for the Right School at the Right Price.

Do you need to graduate from an Ivy League school or other ultra elite college to earn the highest salaries?

Many families believe that graduates who can put a school like Princeton or Yale on their resume will fare significantly better financially than smart students who end up earning their degrees from elsewhere.

In a famous study, two economists tackled this question about a decade ago and concluded that Ivy League graduates did not enjoy an earnings advantage monopoly. The same economists—Alan Krueger at Princeton and Stacy Dale at Mathematica Policy Research— revisited the question with even more compelling data that led them earlier this year to draw even stronger conclusion.

Updating a Landmark Study on the Ivies

To appreciate the researchers’ latest findings, you need to understand why the original study, which has been cited repeatedly over the years, caused such a commotion. In the first study, the economists noted that students who graduated from elite schools like Swarthmore College and University of Pennsylvania earned higher salaries than students from less selective schools. This conclusion was no different from conventional wisdom.

Here, however, is what was explosive: Dale and Krueger concluded that students, who were accepted into elite schools, but went to less selective institutions, earned salaries just as high as Ivy League grads. For instance, if a teenager gained entry to Harvard, but ended up attending Penn State, his or her salary prospects would be the same.

A Stunning Conclusion

In the pair’s latest study, the findings were even more amazing. Applicants, who shared similar high SAT scores with Ivy League applicants could have been rejected from the elite schools that they applied to and yet they still enjoyed similar average salaries as the graduates from elite schools. In the study, the better predictor of earnings was the average SAT scores of the most selective school a teenager applied to and not the typical scores of the institution the student attended.

The researchers originally looked at students who started college in 1976, and in the new study they revisited what happened to these graduates. With the passing time, the salary advantage for the now middle-aged graduates, who attended elite schools, as well as those who gained admission, but passed on the chance, remained. The new study also looked at students who entered college in 1989.

In an email exchange with Krueger and Dale, the researchers made this observation:

“The consistency of our findings across nearly 30 years and for two cohorts makes the findings more compelling. In contrast, our earlier study was based on the earnings of students during a single year for those who attended colleges during the 1970s.”

Students Who Do Best in Ivy League Schools

As with the earlier study, there were some students who did fare better financially if they attended elite colleges and universities. The students who fell into this category were Latino, black, and low-income students, as well as those whose parents did not graduate from college.

In an E-mail, the researchers explained these exceptions:

“While most students who apply to selective colleges may be able to rely on their families and friends to provide job-networking opportunities, networking opportunities that become available from attending a selective college may be particularly valuable for black and Hispanic students and for students who come from families with a lower level of parental education.”

When I asked Dale and Krueger whether the latest research would quell the pervasive belief that the Ivy League schools represent the ticket to a prosperous life, they responded: “It certainly might make some parents and students less anxious about the admissions process.”

Let’s hope so.

Lynn O’Shaughnessy is the author of The College Solution.

Read More on The College Solution:

Do All Admission Reps Know What They Are Talking About?

25 Most Expensive Colleges and Universities

The Latest College Admission Trends

Today I am reprinting an article written by Lee Bierer, a friend of mine, who is a nationally syndicated columnist and independent college counselor in North Carolina. Lee writes the Charlotte Observer’s weekly Countdown to College column, which is syndicated nationally to McClatchy Newspapers.

I asked Lee if I could reprint her column because it reinforces what I’ve been saying for years: families should cast a wider net when they look for colleges. Here’s another way of putting it:  Let’s show some imagination when devising a college list.

Drawing Up a College List

Here is Lee’s column:

The build-up was big, but boy, did he deliver. Robert Franek, senior vice president/publisher at Princeton Review and author of The Best 376 Colleges and The Best Value Colleges, was recently a guest speaker at Myers Park High School in Charlotte.

Franek is nothing if not informative, interactive, energetic and entertaining. He began with two simple facts:

1. It’s never been harder to get into college
2. It’s never been easier to get into college.

Franek got everyone involved from the get-go. “Who here is concerned about getting into a good college?” he asked.

All hands were are raised.

“Who has fear or anxiety about the college admissions process?”

All hands remained up.

Franek suggested that everyone take a deep breath as he observed, “We’re all scared.”

In the Princeton Review’s Hopes and Dreams survey, everyone was united in their fear. According to the survey, the No. 1 worry for students is that they will get into the school of their choice, but won’t be able to afford it.

Picking 3 Dream Schools

University of North Carolina Chapel Hill

Franek asked students and parents to write down the names of three colleges they would like to see themselves or their children attend, with the caveat that neither financial aid nor the college’s level of selectivity were factors – just where they would like to go to college if there were no obstacles. Franek gave them a minute to think and then shouted, “Cross off any Ivy League schools.” Okay, not much reaction.

“Cross off University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.” Audible moans.

“Cross off Duke, Wake Forest, North Carolina State University, Elon and the University of South Carolina.”

The list went on until he ticked off roughly 25 colleges. He then asked “How many of you have three colleges left on your list? How many have two? You see, everyone is applying to the same 25 colleges and universities.”

So what’s the take-away message?

Students should have a good mix of colleges on their college list, Include a few of the usual suspects, but teenagers should try to find one or two schools that meet their criteria but don’t have as many applicants from their high school.

Read more at The College Solution:

If you want to learn more about students’ tendency to apply to the same group of colleges – and why that’s a bad idea, read these posts that I’ve written during the past few months on my college blog:

What’s Wrong With College Dream Lists

Where Students End Up Attending College

Lynn O’Shaughnessy is the author of the newly released, second edition of The College Solution: A Guide for Everyone Looking for the Right School at the Right Price.

May 1 is college decision day.

That’s the day each year when many colleges and universities across the country require high school seniors to make a final decision about where they will attend school in the fall. Seniors must notify their No. 1 pick by putting down a deposit to secure their spot in the next freshman class.

I’d love to hear from parents or high school seniors about their college choices. Are you happy with the results? Unhappy? Nervous about covering the costs? And just as importantly, do you have any advice to share for those who won’t be facing this milestone for at least another year?

To start things off, I am delighted to share a note that I received over the weekend from a dad with a success story.

Advice from a Happy Parent

Hi Lynn,

I wanted to thank you for the guidance we’ve received from you over the past year.  Our high school senior just accepted an invitation to attend the University of Richmond on a full merit scholarship.

About a year ago, we started researching schools a step or two below the “reach” and “target” schools that the high school counselor recommended, because a large merit scholarship was important to our family.  We didn’t qualify for need-based financial aid, yet paying anywhere close to full price would have emptied our retirement savings.  (A gripe about terminology:  can we find terms other than “rich” or “affluent” for the millions of middle-class families whose moderate retirement savings disqualify them from need-based aid?)

University of Richmond

You’re Applying Where???

We asked our son to apply first to the handful of schools we had identified in which he had a shot at large merit awards (some of which he had never heard of, or which had no “wow-factor” among his friends and counselor) and then focus on his own list. He grudgingly applied to schools on both lists, a larger number (in work and expense) than either of us liked, but a reasonable trade-off to address his and our priorities.

While we waited for results over the next several months, we discussed the realities of the family economics, the consequences of loan debt, and he focused on what type of school he really wanted to attend, re-visiting several. He realized that he wanted a college which promised small classes, and learned that many friends knew someone who attended and loved these formerly unknown schools. In March, things happily came together in a decision with which everyone is delighted.

This Parent’s Advice

My advice is that parents not leave the research and college list development solely to their 17-18 year old kids and their counselors. Discussions between parents and kids should start early, but a lot of maturing comes to kids during the spring of their senior year, too late to file more applications. Parents should do their own research into potential options, and insist that logical (if non-glamorous) choices be included.  While many kids may resist this “intrusion,” ours now thanks us for our help.

John

What Do You Think?

I am happy that these parents can send their child to college without jeopardizing their own retirement. Families that educate themselves about their college choices are more likely to have their children head off to colleges that are not only appropriate academically, but are also more doable financially.

I agree with John that parents shouldn’t let their teenagers compile a college list on their own. The results are more likely to be a disaster.

What do you think? If you have any thoughts to share, please use the comment box below.

The College Solution Workshops

If you’re going to be in sunny San Diego on May 12 and/or May 19, I’d urge you to consider attending one or both of the college workshops that I will be holding through the University of California San Diego Extension. At the workshop on May 12 I will share ways to make college more affordable while at the workshop on May 19 I will focus on academic and admission issues. You can learn more about the college workshops here.

If you have questions, just email me at Lynn@TheCollegeSolution. I hope to see you there!

Lynn O’Shaughnessy is the author of The College Solution: A Guide for Everyone Looking for the Right School at the Right Price.

Read More on The College Solution:

Where Are the Scholarships Hiding?

Getting Stiffed by Harvard

An Email from a Disillusioned Mom

I’ve been receiving some fascinating comments lately that were triggered by recent posts that shared the agony of students who aimed for the Ivies and other elite schools and got spurned or who couldn’t afford the tab. If you missed the posts, here they are:

Should You Blow the Budget on Cornell?

The Odds of Getting Off a Wait List

I am sharing one of those comments today that was written by Mary, a foreign affairs specialist from Fairfax, VA, who is also a recruiter for a federal agency. (She can’t divulge her full name or the agency where she works.). She was reacting to the post that included the predicament of a young woman who had been accepted at Cornell, but the school that the family can afford is the honors college at the University of Maryland.

I hope everyone reads what Mary has to say below because I find it extremely encouraging for smart students everywhere. – Lynn O.

Perspectives of a Job Recruiter

I am involved in recruiting for a very selective federal agency. Our jobs require very high level skills, including a minimum of a master’s degree. Most people I work with are brilliant. They get their jobs here by passing a rigorous entrance test on knowledge of foreign affairs, foreign language aptitude, writing samples, oral exam (to determine presentation skills), quantitative skills, and a psychological battery.

We purposely recruit from a very wide variety of schools from across the country, to include small exclusive liberal arts schools,  less selective small schools, large state universities, historically black colleges, work colleges, women’s colleges, some Ivy Leagues, some Public Ivies, etc.

We have people from famous and not-so-famous colleges. We have smart people from every type of college you can imagine — people from Middle Tennessee State University working alongside people from Harvard. And guess what? They’re all doing the same work with great enthusiasm, smarts, and capability.

It matters not at all where they got their degrees but rather what they did with their time in the colleges they did attend. It matters what kind of person they are, how persistent they are, how hard they work, how creative they are, and how they present themselves.

Sometimes recruits from the big state schools have the greatest persistence and deal the best with bureaucratic issues, because to survive and thrive in their schools, they developed that set of skills. Many of the folks from small liberal arts colleges of any level of selectivity are our most creative and insightful employees.

Sometimes the poor kid who had to pay his way through Chico State has the most pluck and is the most driven. These types of employees are sometimes the most successful of all, because they are used to working hard from the get-go and did not come by anything in life through their dad’s connections. They have no sense of entitlement, so are willing to get their hands dirty for the mission.

Diversity Valued in the Workplace

We don’t want all of our employees to be from one social background, one socio-economic strata or one racial background. We need and thrive on diversity — it is absolutely essential to our agency’s success and to our country’s success. Most companies recognize this, and thus do not only recruit from name-brand institutions.

University of Maryland

There are so many successful people in my workplace and similar ones who did not go to “name brand U.” In fact, I work with a number of highly successful University of Maryland graduates, some of whom did just what Ms. O’Shaughnessy is claiming here is true — turned down more prestigious private schools to attend UMD’s honors program because the price was right. They said they had small, intimate classes with exceptional peers and fantastic professors.

In my opinion, these parents will be making a very silly mistake to mortgage their future to send their child to a name-brand college for undergraduate studies. If anything, save that for the graduate level, when there are fewer credit hours to carry and at a level where the reputation is more important.

Save Your Money for Grad School

As an undergraduate, students at Cornell are in huge, impersonal lecture classes with a lot of teaching assistants. Why kill yourself to pay for that? Go to the University of Maryland as an undergrad and then focus on the Ivies for grad school, if you still care at that point.

In the meantime, just look around you and count up the number of successful, happy people you know who went to all manner of non-famous colleges or none at all — your friends, family, and neighbors, as well as some famous folks (Steve Jobs, Warren Buffet, Harry S. Truman, Ronald Reagan, the Wright Brothers, Albert Einstein, and Michael Dell to name a few…)