Note: I wanted to let you know that I will be holding my next two college workshops at the University of California, San Diego on Jan. 28 and Feb. 4. At the workshops — you can sign up for one or both – I aim to share with you ways to help you make smart decisions about picking colleges and making them more affordable. You can learn more here and sign up for the workshops here. Lynn O.

Getting Hassled About College Choices

I received an email yesterday from a mom in Southern California, whose daughter Nicole is getting grief about the Southern universities that she has applied to.  Karen’s email raises a lot of interesting issues including preconceived notions about schools, the tendency of some parent(s) to push kids to attend their alma mater or state schools and a lack of understanding of how you can find schools that are more affordable. Aiming too high academically, for instance, can result in a teenager getting  aid packages stuffed with $55,000 worth of loans.

I’d love for you to read Karen’s note and share your thoughts in the comment box below.  Karen covers a lot in this note and I’m eager to read what you think! I will comment on the letter in my post tomorrow.

Email from a Concerned Mom

Thank you for your advice on this website and the books.  I have tried to incorporate the knowledge that I’ve learned in helping my daughter, who is a senior. We went to South and North Carolina to visit some smaller schools first (Furman, Elon, Davidson) and took a detour to Clemson.  The other schools were too small for her and she did like Clemson – so we started to look at schools a bit larger including Texas Christian University and Southern Methodist University.   With their lower costs and merit scholarships, our cost would be close to what we would pay for a University of California campus.  We are still waiting to hear back from others including Baylor University (which has a scholarship calculator on its website) and she is expecting merit aid from that school too.  I am sure she will receive flak for Baylor as well.

Nicole’s Merit Awards

Here is what she has gotten so far:

Texas Christian University (60k scholarship -15k a yr)

Southern Methodist University (48k scholarship – 12k a yr)

Clemson University (40k scholarship – 10k a yr)

University of San Diego ($0)

She has received the most negative comments about Clemson and TCU.  She really liked both schools when we visited them and both schools have Honors Colleges and Residences.  Clemson is a bit larger than what she was looking for, but the honor colleges and residences make the school seem smaller.

Why the Criticism?

I think most of the criticism is triggered by the rankings and locations – South versus Northeast.  Somehow anything in the Northeast must be better!  Also, many here in California are just not used to going to a different state for school and since many at my daughter’s school are first generation – the parents go by rankings and name. We used to live in Kansas City and most of her friends there already have selected Kansas State or University of Kansas. Our old neighbor’s daughter went to St. Olaf College. and many there also wondered why. I guess it is just that most kids usually stay close to home for college even in Kansas.

When we first started to look, the kids just made fun of her for looking at Furman and Elon – definitely schools not known out here!  I was impressed by the schools and wished she would have liked them!

We have used the tools for looking for schools with smaller class sizes, learning-based communities and those offering merit aid.  She has also learned about applying to the right schools and being realistic about matching up her grades, extracurriculars and test scores with universities.

My daughter has seen too many kids apply to schools even though they barely made the bottom of the 25-75% range. They are disappointed when they have gotten rejection letters or received no merit money.   We have also witnessed how family income comes into play.  She has seen many wealthy kids from our area get into Ivies (or other Ivy top tier) with stats a bit lower than some of her friends who were rejected even though they are National Merit scholars with perfect GPA’s and near perfect SAT’s, but who need aid.

Why Not USC?

While my daughter is pretty much sold on the idea of attending one of the schools on her list, the status and name issue keeps creeping in not only by her peers, but teachers and family members.  First, I am dealing with my husband’s family, who are LA natives.  My husband and his family attended University of Southern California for both their undergraduate and graduate work. Consequently, Nicole is not only battling the argument that one can only get a job attending a “name school,” but also that USC offers greater opportunities. And then there is the distance issue.  My mother- in-law believes kids should only attend college within a one-hour drive away from home so they can return every weekend and you can easily go take care of your kids if they are sick.  Hence my search for out-of-state colleges, gasp, that are not considered good, has been very alien to them.

My research shows that USC is different than it was in the 1950’s and the 1980’s when the relatives attended.  My husband’s family got a lot of money to send their kids there.  So I was able to show that the SAT range has gone up more than 300 points since then, and while my husband’s scores were in the upper 25% range then, our daughter with better SAT & ACT scores and higher GPA’s than her dad, is not in the upper 25% range now.

 Pressure from Her Teachers for Big Name Schools

Her teachers and peers have commented to her about her acceptances into some of these schools as “I thought you are smart.” She is in the top 3% of her school in Irvine – her 2012 class has 14 National Merit Scholars, and in last year’s class there were large numbers of students that went to the Ivies, UCLA and UC Berkeley.  Her one teacher pushed her to apply to Duke University.  She does like the school and she applied.  She is practical and has thought about later that they only accept 2 AP courses and she will have taken 9 (she has gotten 5’s on past tests), and she wouldn’t get merit money (not in the top 25%), so this would be very expensive.  So she is now thinking that since she is majoring in the sciences and plans to go to grad school in the health field, she needs to balance undergraduate cost with educational experience and it wouldn’t be wise to get into debt over Duke.  However, here is what she is being told – you have a better chance at grad school acceptances or med school going to Duke, UCLA, or USC.

Greater Competition This Year

I guess we are also noticing that she is in a very competitive graduation class – the application stats of the students at the places she has been applying are greater than in years prior.  In the past with her resume, she may have earned a full ride at some of these places, but is getting 10-15k off per year ($40k-$60k scholarships) instead at many of the schools she targeted.  Also, the economy maybe pushing high-achieving kids to look and apply at schools offering merit money more so than in the past.  She also applied and got into University of San Diego; however in the past many kids she knows got over 20k off with lower stats and extracurriculas, and she got in and didn’t get merit offers (as of now).  She was going to use that as a local backup if she could get the costs to a UC level!  But it seems there is more money out-of-state since many of her peers will not apply out of state so more competition here!

Any Advice?

If you have input in your columns about how to handle legacy parents and grandparents, going away to school and how to handle the “name” game with schools and teachers, I would greatly appreciate it. And again, thank you – at least she said she knows she is going to school and she likes where she has gotten in so far!

Karen

What Do You Think?

Okay folks, I’d love for you to weigh in on any aspect of Karen’s note. Please respond in the box below.

I want to give a big thanks to all of my regular visitors — and the new folks too — who helped to make 2011 the best year ever for The College Solution! I know 2011 was my best year because I use Google Analytics to keep track of how many people visit my college blog.

Now that we’re in a new year, I used the analytic tool today to see what my most popular college blog posts were for 2011. If you missed them the first time, I thought you might enjoy reading them.

1. Don’t Believe the Sticker Price: The Most Expensive Colleges in the Country

I wrote this post in July after the U.S. Department of Education released its list of the most expensive state and private colleges and universities in the country. Seven of the 10 priciest institutions are art schools and music conservatories. Unless you’re wealthy, I’d stay away from these schools.

2. Popular College Majors With the Highest and Lowest Unemployment

I took a look at the most popular college majors and discovered which ones have the best and worst unemployment rates. Architecture majors seems to face the lousiest prospects while medical technology technicians enjoy the best.

3. Do You Know the Difference Between a College and a University?

In this May post, I explain the difference between universities and colleges. I firmly believe that if more students understood the differences, more undergrads would be enrolling at colleges.

4. Best and Worst Paying College Degrees

I personally don’t believe you should choose college majors just because of potential pay and frankly most students can’t qualify for the best-paying jobs because most of them require math skills.

4.  Grinnell College: A College Admission Success Story

This was a story about a kid from St. Louis who won the educational lottery when got into Grinnell College, which is among a few dozen schools in the country that offer the best financial aid policies.

5. 10 Great Ways to Shrink the Cost of College

The best way to cut college costs is to be an educated consumer. You an start by checking out these money-saving tips.

6. 30 Liberal Arts Colleges In or Near Cities

I wrote this post because so many teenagers want to attend college in a city. Many liberal arts colleges, including that pair that my kids attend(ed) are not near urban areas, which is what turns off some teenagers who believe (rightly or wrongly) that they have to live in cities during college. I wrote this post for these kids. You should also read the next day’s post where I include the liberal arts schools that I had overlooked : More Liberal Arts Colleges In Or Near Cities

7. Anatomy of a Stingy College and a Generous One

This was one of my favorite blog posts of the year. I compare two Pennsylvania schools — Muhlenberg College and Drexel University – to explain why it’s important examine the financial aid policies of individual schools. FYI, Drexel is the stingy school.

8. Getting Into College With Learning Disabilities

David Montesano, a college consultant in Bellevue, WA, wrote this great guest post for high schools students with learning disabilities. You’ll find a lot of helpful advice on this topic.

9. What is the Best Student Loan?

The best college loan for students is the Stafford Loan. I provide a link to a bunch of my student loan posts.

10. Financial Aid and Divorce

I write about a teenager with divorced parents who blew it when developing her list of schools. The blog posts shares how different schools treat families of divorce.

Lynn O’Shaughnessy is the author of The College Solution, an Amazon bestseller,  and a financial aid workbook, Shrinking the Cost of College: Great Ways to Cut the Price of a Bachelor’s Degree, which is only available on her website.

Today I want to share a nifty interactive tool on The Chronicle of Higher Education’s  website that you can use to see where students, who attend any college or university, are coming from.

When I used it to look up the the University of Michigan, I discovered that the biggest contingent of nonresidents were from New York (361), Illinois (319), California (297) and New Jersey (234). Sixty four percent (3,900 freshmen) came from Michigan. The University of Michigan has a long tradition of attracting students from outside the state — and enjoying the premium prices these nonresidents pay.

When using this tool on The Chronicle’s website, you can put your cursor on any state on the map and see how many freshmen came from there. The smaller the dot, the fewer the freshmen.

University of Michigan

University of California, Berkeley

I also checked the stats of another prestigious flagship, University of California, Berkeley, which has only recently begun to aggressively pursue rich nonresidents.

The biggest groups of nonresident freshmen came from Texas (62), Washington state (58), New York (42), New Jersey (33), Maryland (32) and Illinois (28). North Dakota, Nebraska and Mississippi each produced one freshmen for Berkeley. Eighty four percent of UC Berkeley’s freshmen class (3,003 students) were Californians.

 What Can You Do With These Stats?

Are these just fun facts? Not necessarily.

These stats could be helpful if you’re looking at private colleges and universities that value geographic diversity. If you’re a teenager, who is interested in a college that rarely sees applicants from your state, you could enjoy an advantage over other teenagers. It’s worth checking out.

The Most Popular States for College Students

You can also use the tool to see what states are most popular with nonresidents.

Using the tool, I found the states that attract the most outsiders. I’m not surprised that the top states for nonresidents are located on the East Coast. Take a look:

States That Attract the Most Outside College Students

What’s cool about this interactive college tool is that you can click on the bars next to a state’s name and find out how many students are coming from individual states. For instance, the biggest feeder states for Pennsylvania schools are New Jersey, New York and Maryland.

Least Popular States for Outsiders

Not surprisingly, the states that draw the fewest outsiders are remote or sparsely populated. The state that I was surprised about — it just missed being on this list at No. 11  — was New Jersey.

Lynn O’Shaughnessy is the author of The College Solution and she also writes a college blog for CBSMoneyWatch.com and US News & World Report. Join her on Facebook.

 Read More on The College Solution:

 Where Most Students End Up Attending College

Attending College in a Different Time Zone

Attending a College With Lousy Weather

I heard from a mom this week, who is worried about some of the schools her daughter has begun applying to. I wanted to share what the mother wrote:

As I watch my daughter start her college applications, I’m cringing inside because she’s wanting to apply to out of state public schools such as UCLA, Georgia Tech and Purdue. Although Purdue states that it does have scholarships to out of state students, I’m worried that this will end up being a waste of time and the cost of the application fees.

I would add “public schools in other states” to the list of schools that generally don’t give merit aid.

The Allure of Distant State Universities

I don’t blame Patty for being concerned. In some cases, the cost of attending an out-of-state school an end up costing the same or more than a private college or university. Here’s why: state universities are looking for more sources of revenue and what better way to capture extra cash than from impressionable 18-year-olds who think it would be cool to go to the University of Michigan or some other high visibility state school?

While many state universities give merit money, I’d argue that the flagships universities are going to be more tightfisted because they rarely have to worry about attracting enough students. I’ve heard from students, for instance, who have received $5,000 merit awards from the University of Michigan, which isn’t going to go far. Michigan for the typical nonresident is going to cost about $50,000 a year.

Some prestigious state universities, such as UCLA, University of California, Berkeley and the University of Washington in Seattle don’t give out any merit awards. Any of the University of California campuses would cost your daughter about $53,000 a year! The tuition at the University of Washington is $10,826 versus $28,310 for nonresidents. That’s a huge premium to pay for the privilege of going to a state school that has been facing severe financial troubles, which you can read about in this Chronicle of Higher Education story.

Doing Your Due Diligence

Before students aim for state schools as nonresidents, here are a couple of things you should do:

1. Use Net Price Calculators With Caution.

I’ve written a lot about net price calculators lately and you should definitely use a calculator before applying to any school including out-of-state public universities to see what the price will be. As a nonresident, however, you need to be careful that you are getting an accurate price.  Mark Kantrowitz, publisher of Fastweb and FinAid, said he tried a few calculators on state university sites a few months ago and observed it was “hit or miss” on whether these calculators asked for the residency of an applicant.

2. Research scholarship availability.

Head over to a school’s admission web pages and research what kind of out-of-state scholarships are available. Typically these scholarships will be awarded based on a child’s test scores and GPA. These schools don’t have the manpower to evaluate applicants holistically so awards are often strictly by the numbers.

More from The College Solution

Out-of-State Universities: Finding Bargains

4 Ways to Cut the Cost of an Out-of-State University

What is Your Expected Family Contribution

Lynn O’Shaughnessy is the author of The College Solution and she also writes a college blog for CBSMoneyWatch.com and US News & World Report. Follow her on Twitter.

When it comes to checking out colleges, I’m a big believer that more students should be casting a wider net by looking at schools that aren’t in their own state.

Most teenagers don’t do this. The vast majority of students never look beyond the public universities in their own state and 52% don’t wander more than 100 miles from home. Only 15.5% of freshmen, according to an annual  UCLA survey of freshmen, attend schools more than 500 miles away.

I thought I’d share with you just how many kids stay close to home.  Below you’ll find statistics published by The Chronicle of Higher Education that pinpoint the  percentage of college students in individual states who enroll in their own state institutions. Nationwide, 73% of students attend their own state schools.

Where Most Students Attend College

Region…………………….Percentage of Students Attending Their Own State Schools

Northeast

• Massachusetts 44%
• Rhode Island 51%
• Pennsylvania 55%
• New York  55%
• New Hampshire   59%
• Vermont  60%
• Connecticut  64%
• Maine  71%
• Delaware  73%
• New Jersey  81%

Midwest

• Missouri  58%
• Iowa 49%
• Minnesota  61%
• Illinois  65%
• Ohio  73%
• Indiana   74%
• Wisconsin 79%
• Michigan 81%

South

• Tennessee 70%
• Florida, 74%
• Virginia  74%
• Georgia 79%
• Kentucky 80%
• South Carolina 81%
• Alabama 83%
• North Carolina  83%
• Louisiana  86%
• Arkansas 89%
• Mississippi  90%

Southwest

• Arizona  58%
• Oklahoma 86%
• Texas  87%
• New Mexico  92%

Plains

• Nebraska 75%
• South Dakota 78%
• North Dakota 86%
• Montana 90%
• Wyoming 96%

West

• Utah 72%
• Colorado 75%
• Idaho  75%
• Hawaii 77%
• Oregon 81%
• California  84%
• Washington 85%
• Nevada 91%
• Alaska 94%

Why You Should Consider Schools in Other Time Zones

In a previous post for my CBS MoneyWatch blog, here is what I said about the potential advantages of looking beyond your own state:

Applying to a time zone or two away, can gives students a leg up on larger financial aid or merit awards. Why? Because colleges crave geographic diversity. If a college admission office in Ohio or Michigan is trying to decide who gets a scholarship between two equally talented candidates, do you think the child from 50 miles away will get it or the teenager from San Francisco?

As a practical matter, exploring more alternatives can be a lifesaver if the public universities in your state are cutting back enrollment due to shrinking budgets. My  nephew, who lives in the San Francisco Bay Area, now worries that the California state universities that he thought he could get into next fall may end up rejecting him because of the state’s financial turmoil. He and his parents are now looking beyond California state schools to find back-up choices.

Lynn O’Shaughnessy is the author of The College Solution and she also writes college blogs for CBSMoneyWatch and US News & World Report.

Learn more about The Ultimate College Workshop that will be held on Oct. 15 at the University of California, San Diego.

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