It seems to me that too many parents are stressing about what their children should select as a college major.
I’m of the opinion that what’s important is getting a degree. I believe it’s less relevant what that degree is. Students are more likely to be successful if they choose a discipline that they are passionate about.
In this rush to embrace “practical” majors, too many students are selecting majors based on their parents desires or are taking their cues from the lists of the best-paying majors. These lists are pointless because the same majors monopolize the top. We don’t need to be constantly reminded that the grads more likely to snag top-paying jobs have mastered high-level math and science skills, which frankly most students are incapable of doing.
Being Realistic About Engineering
I was thinking about this lately because I’ve been hearing from people interested in engineering. Engineering degrees are perennially at the top of those best-paying-job lists. But strangely what some teenagers and their families don’t understand is that just because you want to earn a mechanical engineering or computer science degree doesn’t mean you have the ability.
I exchanged emails recently with a mom whose daughter would love to be an engineer. She has been involved in an engineering club at high school and she got a summer job at a federal agency where a lot of engineers work. All that sounds fine except when you look at the teenager’s academic profile. She earned about a 1600 (on a 2400 scale) on her SAT. She has a GPA of about 3.2. While it’s not impossible that this child could survive an engineering program with their notorious drop-out rates, the odds aren’t good.
Recently I attended a webinar that focused, in part, on what kind of students should be pursuing engineering. The speaker was Hollis Bischoff, an independent college consultant, who gave the talk through MyCCA.net, which helps college consultants do their jobs. Because she’s located in the Silicon Valley, Hollis works with many students whose parents are highly educated and whose fathers are often engineers. Engineers, by the way, who often want their children to follow their career path.
Engineering DNA
In a blog post, Hollis had this to say about parents lobbying teens to pursue engineering:
Characteristics of a Successful Engineering Student
Here are some key characteristics, according to Hollis, that teenagers should have if they want to aim for an engineering degree:
- They regularly solve household problems. If the dishwasher or air conditioner conks out, these kids will pull it apart and figure out what’s wrong.
- They are life-long tinkerers.
- They have developed apps for phones.
- They have started a little company or created a product.
- They have done computer programming.
- They have taken the highest level math their school offers for four years. Ideally they have taken AP Calculus BC.
- They have also taken four years of science, which ideally will include AP physics and an AP lab science.
My Favorite Engineer
I recognized my own father when reading the above list. When my dad was in eighth grade he rewired his family’s tiny house that previously had only possessed one electrical socket. Growing up, I remember my dad keeping an old, balky air conditioner alive for many years beyond its life span and frankly there was just nothing he couldn’t fix in our house. Thanks to the GI bill, he was able to attend engineering school at St. Louis University and later went on to graduate school in engineering. As an electrical engineer, my dad spent more than 40 years at Emerson Electric Co..
My dad never tried to push any of us to be an engineer. Neither myself nor any of my four siblings became engineers and only one of my parents’ 12 grandchildren graduated with an engineering degree. My father would have been very proud of his grandson Kevin, who earned an engineering degree from the University of Missouri in May and, yes, he did find a high-paying job. But boy did he earn it!
Engineering lab image courtesy of UC Davis College of Engineering.
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My father was an engineer and encouraged me to become one. But his advice was to do what you love and you will always be happy at your job.
I majored in art, found a way to support myself in the arts and have always been happy with my choice. I have to say I did not fully understand what it entailed to become an engineer. It is so important to explore at this point. My daughter explored engineering and is hooked even though she has never tinkered around the house. We are gong to check out this week a very specialized engineering major just to understand if it is interesting.
Many kids say – I will do what ever it is as long as I do not take another math class. My daughter said the opposite the other day. I will do what ever it takes as long as I never have to take another english class. We had a good laugh over that… Fortunately she is excellent in english so I am not worried.
After all these years I think my Dad’s advice is right on!
This one is personal for me.
I attended an engineering college due to my dad’s insistence. Misery and subsequent transfer to another college and major followed. (The bright spot: I still graduated in four years)
My daughter has friends who are in STEM majors due to their dad’s pushing. They are bright and capable, as well as stressed and not passionate about what they are doing.
Thank you for bring up the topic.
I enjoy your blog and this is the first post that really troubled me.
I agree strongly that parents should not push their kids into engineering, or any STEM field, simply because of perceived career benefits. Also, kids who do poorly in math and science should not pursue engineering.
But when you go on to describe “engineering DNA,” you describe a male stereotype. Close your eyes and picture a “tinkerer” or a household fixer of appliances. Honestly say whether the image in your head is male or female. It’s male, of course. The DNA you refer to certainly seems to be of the Y and not X variety.
I strongly recommend the excellent report “Why so few? Women in Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics,” by the American Association of University Women. Link is here:
http://www.aauw.org/learn/research/whysofew.cfm
The report refutes the idea that STEM success is “in your DNA.” Rather, STEM success depends on a “growth mindset.” A growth mindset is the belief that intellectual abilities, including STEM abilities, are not fixed, but can be developed with persistence and hard work.
My own seventh-grade daughter may someday major in English, or sociology, or math, or biology, or physics, or yes, even engineering. She has never torn apart an air conditioner, like most girls, and I’m confident she never will. But so what? If she became an engineer, it appears that some male engineers, wedded to sexist stereotypes, would refuse to hire her. However, others would surely judge her on her abilities. None of these abilities–math, science, or any other–are fixed in her DNA.
Rosalie
Hi Rosalie,
I want to thank you for your comment and the link to the American Association of University Women report. The last thing that I would want to do is to discourage women from going into the STEMs. I will take a look at the study!
Lynn O’Shaughnessy
As a male engineer I do agree that there are strong stereotypes regarding STEM careers. You are correct that too many of the expressions of engineering characteristics we look for in candidates for STEM education are expressed in male centric terms.
However, I strongly disagree with the premise that anyone of average intelligence can succeed in an engineering discipline. I have worked in this field for almost 25 years, and I have seen lots of bright people, men and women, who simply lacked the “DNA” to be effective. There are characteristics that successful engineers possess that are not learned, but rather they are inherent expressions of who they are as individuals. It is a part of our personality.
The challenge is to learn how to correctly spot the characteristics that make a young person a good candidate for a STEM career (or any other) in the variety of ways they are expressed in male and female children. As a father of three girls I have never pushed any of them toward or away from STEM. I have tried to instill confidence in them so that they can pursue whatever career they are passionate about, and the judgement to chose wisely.
Very true. I would like to add my own point of view to a worthy topic. I have seen many people parents push for practical majors, such as engineering or nursing, and totally rule out a liberal arts degree as if they are completely useless just because you may have a harder time getting that “all important” killer first job. I love math and science, but I have to admit it is not for everyone to get into as a career.
Good read though, if you’d like check out my blog at http://EducationProductivity.blog.com/ where I try to address some issues with today’s college learning/
I am a theatre-school graduate who has parlayed the degree I got into a successful career in HR for an Oil and Gas company. I agree wholesale with the early comment that people will be more successful long-term if they pick a degree which they are passionate about. Also, I agree that getting a degree is more important than which degree; But I would add that it also requires those degree-earners to develop the ability to identify which skills and capabilities they developed through their degree, and how they could apply those skills in different contexts.
Like the “lifelong engineer”, students need to examine their degrees, and figure out how the component skills they are developing operate, so they can determine how to make themselves successful in multiple industries. I was a mediocre math student, but learned everything I know about problem solving from putting on theatre shows. This flexibility makes you more marketable, since you avoid pigeon-holing yourself into one type of work or industry.
Now, later in life, I find the skills I developed in theatre school invaluable, and am in a role which conventionally would have been offered to Commerce students. Though the idea of having taken a commerce degree gives me hives, I can reflect on the fact that I loved my choice of University Major, made great lifelong connections with people, and made myself into the person I am today. It is this, more than the letters of my degree that have enabled me to have a rewarding and challenging career.
For those who dream of pursuing engineering, but can’t make the sut – take heart. Any other degree may mean you don’t work with the title of “Engineer”, but there are a lot of ways to do the work that excites you and that you are passionate about.
Great comment Shane! You make so much sense and I hope it gives students agonizing about having to major in practical majors the confidence to pursue the academic areas that they truly care about.
Lynn O’Shaughnessy
I find your comment very helpful and relatable. I am a junior high school student who wanted to pursue engineering (not because my parents want me to, or because of the high pay though) but am finding IB higher level (similar difficulty to AP) maths quite difficult. I took drama in freshman and sophomore, and take theater now, and I am rather interested in it.
I am more relieved now that I read about your experiences and insights.
Wow, i know this artificial is just trying to be helpful but seriously i graduated from a top then engineering program (3rd in the nation for my major) and i meet few to none of your engineering requirements. I don’t think i barley had a 3.0 in high school, only a 1440 on my SAT, was never in accelerated math, my parents were not engineers, i had no programming experience, and never hardly tinkered with things. Sure I didn’t graduate summa cum laude, but i was in the top 50% of my class. Its about your math skills and your effort that is pretty much it.
A 1440 out of 1600 or out of 2400? The former would be a strong score.
Anon — The SAT score was 1440 out of 2400.
Lynn O’Shaughnessy
how do you know?… just saying…
I want to reply to the list of traits that were listed above that have to be present to safely consider engineering as a career. It states that you should be actively taking things apart and putting them back together, programming computers, or starting your own business (at 16?). I am a professional engineer, a project manager, and I have 10 years of experience. At no time in my life have I ever taken anything apart to see how it works. I am quite sure my parent would not have been too thrilled with that. I have heard that stereotype many times. A student who is considering a career in engineering needs to have an above average ability in math and science and above all else a strong work ethic and desire to succeed. You will learn how to analyze whatever it is you are working on in college and you will really learn how to design in your job. These blogs keep making it sound like the student should already have the skills before they go to college. I have been working for ten years and I still learn every day. With regard to the SAT scores and the GPA of that young girl who wishes to be an engineer. I would not say that immediately excludes her from engineering. A successful engineering education is 3 parts intelligence and 7 parts effort.
I’m not an engineer. My husband is not an engineer… he can’t fix anything (what was I thinking?). We’re both bachelor of arts people. But I come from a family of engineers and my son is obviously strong, if not gifted, in math and science. But, he doesn’t tinker. So, as I read your article I wonder: is this because he hasn’t been introduced to tinkering it from his youth? Is it because he’s not an engineer-type? Or, is it because he’s not a MECHANICAL engineer-type? Excuse my non-engineering ignorance… but aren’t there a huge variety of engineers? Civil, electrical, chemical, mechanical, etc? Do they all seem to “tinker” or might they have other skills/interests as well?
Bchags – You are correct. While the characteristics listed indicate a *strong* predilection to mechanical engineering, they are not all necessary. Help your son “try on” all kinds of things.
Keep in mind that this blog post is not the gospel. It’s only an opinion of the author, who is not an engineer. I, however, am a junior in mechanical engineering at a well known university, I have interned at an international company, and am doing well in school. So here’s my thoughts on this blog’s list:
“They regularly solve household problems. If the dishwasher or air conditioner conks out, these kids will pull it apart and figure out what’s wrong. ”
“They are life-long tinkerers.”
-For these first two comments, not necessarily. There’s a difference between a tinkerer and an engineer. Sometimes these go hand in hand, but not always. For example, I have some good friends who like to fix their car, computer, household items, etc. These same friends went to engineering school with me, and dropped out their freshman year. Why, you may ask? After all, isn’t a “tinkerer” what an engineer is? The answer is NO. An engineer has an analytical mind, but they must also have a strong work ethic and be motivated to learn many things that are hard to understand. These friends of mine knew how to be the “handyman”, but they thought doing math problems and solving engineering issues on paper/computer was stupid, or they just couldn’t bring themselves to learn the material. My question to you is this. How is a car designed? Do you have guys with screwdrivers tinkering aimlessly at each car until its finished, and then driven out of the factory? No..you have many people designing each part and process until the car is fit to be produced (by using computers and engineering concepts), then you tell the workers how it should be built.
“They have started a little company or created a product.” How many teenagers do you know that have the resources / bright idea to patent a design or start a company? This comment is purely absurd. Of course, if your child has created something innovative, I’m sure their future line of work will be obvious to you regardless of what “most engineers” do.
“They have done computer programming.”
Not necessarily, unless your son/daughter aims to be a computer software engineer. To most engineers (especially mechanical), programming is just another tool we use, just as a construction worker feels about his hammer. I certainly don’t love programming, but it makes my work easier)
“They have taken the highest level math their school offers for four years. Ideally they have taken AP Calculus BC.”
“They have also taken four years of science, which ideally will include AP physics and an AP lab science.”
These two comments, just no…You can start from nothing and still be a successful engineer. I didn’t know any math when I got out of high school (didn’t plan on becoming an engineer until my senior year so I didn’t even remember my algebra). So what did I do? I went to my local community college and got placed in college algebra the summer after high school. I then went to Trigonometry, Calc 1, Calc 2, Calc 3, Differential equations, then on to my engineering courses after transferring. And you know what? Some people who take Calculus 1 will fail it because they didn’t know their basic maths as good as they thought (good old public education system), and have to retake the class. Thanks to me having my algebra and trig fresh in my mind, I got all A’s in my calc. classes, while showing some of the other students up.
My point is this: Do not let “myths” about engineering keep you, your son, or your daughter from majoring in it. There is not a prerequisite for the major. You only need to have a keen mind, a strong will to learn, and enough motivation to get you through the toughest major ever. Everything else will come along with your job/experience in the field.
Thanks Travis! I appreciate hearing comments who actually attended engineering school and survived! Congratulations.
Lynn O’Shaughnessy
Anyone can be an engineer if they want it bad enough. All it takes is putting in the work to get there. At one of the top 5 engineering universities in the world, I promise you most of us did not come in with Calc BC, most of us have never programmed on a computer before, most of us have not pulled apart our air conditioning systems at home, and most of us have never started a business. While I admit that most of us did come in with more than a 3.2 GPA, it does not mean you are not capable of engineering if you didn’t have the best study skills when you were 15 years old. Some people know how to study in high school, some learn when they get to college and are forced into those situations. The SAT and ACT mean nothing except for how fast you can take an exam. Engineering does not require anything except a desire to be an engineer. The problem with many engineers is they fall in love with the science. That will lead to amazing, useless advancements. It is much more important to want to make things happen in the world, not in your computer or lab. I don’t mean to be argumentative Lynn, but it would kill me if someone was discouraged from pursuing their dream of engineering due, in part, to this article.
Thanks for your comment Nicole. I just don’t see how someone who has gotten “B’s” in lower-track math and who only wants to major in engineering to make more money — and break out of poverty — has a chance in engineering school. I am referring to a boy who looks like he will be heading to the University of Missouri engineering school and I have a bad feeling about it.
There is a reason why there is such a large drop-out rate in engineering.
Lynn O’Shaughnessy